On Oct. 17, 50 years ago, Willie Nelson did a live performance captured by TV cameras for a public TV show pilot – a series that would end up getting the green light and be known the world over by three letters: ACL.
“Austin City Limits” is the longest-running show of its kind in television history. Early on, people might have been tempted to pigeonhole it as a country music show – but then producer Terry Lickona arrived on the scene.
His vision would transform the program and the image of Austin as an eclectic center for all types of music, often catching performers way before the rest of the world caught on. This May, he was awarded the PBS Beacon Award, public television’s highest honor.
Lickona joined Texas Standard to celebrate 50 years of ACL.
This transcript has been edited lightly for clarity:
Texas Standard: Let’s begin with Willie – am I right in saying he’s made more appearances on ACL than anyone else?
Terry Lickona: He has. He’s appeared at least, I’d guess, 18 to 20 times. But you know, who’s counting? His own shows; he’s also been a guest with other artists. There were times he would just pop into the studio and get up on stage and sing a song with whoever happened to be performing that night.
And to cap it all, we are about to do a new show with Willie on Oct. 17, the very same day, 50 years later from when he did the original pilot show. And it’s going to take place on Auditorium Shores at the Long Center directly across from downtown Austin with the real Austin skyline as our backdrop instead of the, shall we say, fake one that we use in our studio.
Do you think Willie knew what he was getting himself into? Because I don’t think there had been anything quite like ACL on the air before then, certainly not from Texas.
No, he didn’t really. He had done a lot of TV when he was in Nashville – you know, he may be from Texas, but he spent a lot of time in Nashville trying to get his career off the ground until he finally gave up on that and decided to come back home to Texas and make Austin his own.
And “Austin City Limits” was a brand-new idea to do a TV show based on our music. And when they asked him to do it, I think he did it just because it seemed like fun. I mean, it certainly wasn’t for the money – I think they might have paid him $50 or something crazy like that.
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And, you know, I have asked him about that original pilot show a number of times. The last time, actually, he was in our studio, and I asked him what he remembered about that night. And he kind of looked at me and rolled his eyes and said, “I don’t really remember what happened yesterday, Terry.”
To me, that said, maybe it’s not a really clear memory in his head. But like I said, he was having fun at the time, and everything in Austin was new to him. And so he was just making the most of it.
One of the things ACL did in those early years was serve as a kind of a soapbox or amplifier for Texas music and Austin music in particular.
But then you came on board and, from what I’ve heard, created a bit of a stir with the direction you wanted to take the show. I remember early on you wanted to get Tom Waits on the program.
This is true. In fact, Tom Waits was the first act that I booked as the fledgling new producer in season four.
Well, the fact of the matter is, and I had no qualms with the shows that we had done up until that point, but we had basically gone through the Austin music scene as it was at the time. You know, it was progressive country or cosmic cowboy; there were a number of names – redneck rock – that people attached to it.
And once we started repeating some of the same artists maybe two times or more, I just thought it was time to move on or at least open the doors to other kinds of music – all kinds of music.
And Tom Waits happened to be on tour. It’s not like I made a special effort to reach out to get him to come to Austin. But he had an open day in his calendar, and I just thought, well, he is not exactly Texas music, certainly not country music, but he is unique. And you never see somebody like him on television, so why not?
And that really opened the door to all kinds of other artists and music and genres and styles down through the years.
You just look at these guests, and I don’t even know where to begin. Of course, you’ve had all the big stars: Waylon Jennings, Dolly Parton … John Fogerty, Sheryl Crow, Elvis Costello. Coldplay, of course; I remember when Coldplay happened. Widespread Panic, Gretchen Wilson, Death Cab for Cutie.
It’s really a who’s who. And I can remember when I first heard a lot of these names that I see on this list, and the first time I heard a lot of these artists, it was on ACL.
How did you go about finding them and picking out who would appear on the show?
Well, in those early years, it was really tough to find these artists – not so much to find them, but to convince them they should come and do this show.
I mean, when I reached out to Ray Charles’ management in L.A., his response was, “Mr. Charles does not do local cable TV.” So I had to start from scratch and explain, well, it’s not exactly local; it’s not cable. It’s PBS. And it is on national TV.
And he didn’t seem to get it, but Ray sure did. I mean, once Ray heard about our offer, you know, his response was, well, that’s a real music show. So he knew, and that was the key to it.
A lot of these artists, whether it’s Coldplay or Waylon Jennings – or just name anyone – they respect the quality of the show, the credibility that it has. And they know that their sound, their music will be well-represented. And in a way, that’s what matters the most to them.
It’s a lot about discovery. You talked about for the first time you saw some of these artists yourself. I hear that all the time, over and over.
And it’s not just somebody like a Coldplay, somebody who’s got that recognition, but the newer, maybe more obscure artists or the singer-songwriters just starting out who haven’t had that kind of exposure, especially on TV. Our audience, because they’re real music fans, they love to discover somebody or a new sound on our show. And that’s part of the beauty of what we do.
I actually had a conversation with Dave Grohl from the Foo Fighters in your studio one day. He was telling me that he felt like it was a kind of a mark of accomplishment, like “I’ve arrived if I get to be on ACL.”
And he wasn’t just blowing smoke. It was completely heartfelt as he was talking about it, how he grew up seeing some of these great performers. And for him to be sharing that stage, you know, where Johnny Cash had once appeared, that sort of thing, it was hard for him to grasp, I think.
It’s a bucket list item or a milestone, call it what you will. But for instance, even an artist like Billie Eilish, when she was, I think, 17 years old, they approached me about her doing the show, which was a shocker, because I didn’t think that a young pop artist like her would even know what it was or be interested in doing it.
Well, come to find out, it was her parents who grew up watching “Austin City Limits” and were very well aware of what the show was and what it stood for. And through them, she learned about the show and made it a point to come and do it because that established the credibility for a young up-and-coming artist like her, who certainly has the talent and deserves to be on our stage.
And it’s kind of nice to see, well, I guess the third generation of artists come along now, and have the same feeling of respect towards our show.
I’m going to ask you to do the impossible here: Is there one artist in particular that sort of stands out to you over these 50 seasons that you would say, “this is the one that I would want to be remembered for” or the one that had the greatest effect?
Well, I could give you a list of them, but I think the one that really stands out and is an obvious answer is Stevie Ray Vaughan. Because of so many things, because of the fact that he represents so much of what Austin stood for and still stands for to this day.
And we were able to capture him twice on our stage – once at the beginning of his career, just before his star really took off. And then right towards the end, literally months before he died in that tragic helicopter crash when he was at the peak of his career.
And just because he was such an awesome performer and artist, that show can’t help but stand out in my mind because there’s so much emotion attached to it as well.
But really, I could look at any year and pick out a show that really stands out in my mind and which I think will stand for the ages. Somebody like Kendrick Lamar, who did our show and said afterwards that it felt like he was playing at a festival. Jon Batiste, who is just an incredible, very spiritual performer who just basically elevated the room that night. The audience was practically levitating. He’s just an incredible talent.
I think our show brings out the best in people, really, no matter who they are or what their style or genre of music is. But again, Stevie Ray, how could you not point to that show as something that really represents everything we’re all about?
You once told me that Lyle Lovett wanted to be on the show so bad he was always knocking on your door and sending you tapes and such, and he would be in the audience. And then when he finally got on the show, you all had a little bit of fun with the B-roll cutaways of the audience.
Well, it’s true, because Lyle and his friend Wayne Miller used to come to our tapings back in the day when he was really just starting out performing. And we got to know him as a friend. It was long before he became a performer.
But we had some shots of him sitting in the audience. I don’t remember what other show it was. So when he finally made his debut and did his own show, we decided to pull one of those audience shots and plug it into his own show.
And there aren’t too many people that look like Lyle Lovett. So it was definitely an odd sight to see him sitting in the audience for his own show. And he got a kick out of it down through the years. So he was pretty good natured about it.
I would imagine with this as the 50th anniversary, you’ve got a really special season planned. How’s the lineup looking?
It’s looking great. Our 50th anniversary season just began on PBS. It’s going to continue to run through February. And we’ve had a number of different special shows. We did our annual Hall of Fame show back in September. We’ve got this show with Willie on Oct. 17. And then we have a two-hour primetime PBS special that we’re going to tape later in the fall that will air on PBS after the first of the year.
The original show Willie did was recorded in October of 1974, but it didn’t actually air until 75, and that’s when the first season began to air. So in our minds, our 50th anniversary is going to go on and on for about two years, probably, through 2025. And we’re going to continue to try to make the most of it.
And it’s not just a celebration of 50 years on broadcast TV, on public television. We really want to celebrate our history for the community. I mean, this show never could have lasted, probably never could have begun in any other city. I’m convinced of that.
But the support of people in Austin … nothing lasts 50 years without some struggle. We’ve had hard times, ups and downs financially and politics and so forth. The pandemic, I mean, that shut us down for most of the year like the rest of the world.
But the people of Austin rallied behind us. They were willing and able to continue to financially support us. The City of Austin has contributed to the financial production cost of our show. I mean, that is a very unique situation.
So we want to celebrate with the people of Austin, as well as the people around the world who have enjoyed the show for 50 years.
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